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Subject: Re[4]: uk-policy Downing Street and after (fwd)
Author: Thomas Brandt at ~DBEDT
Date: 5/28/98 2:40 PM
Michael,
Thanks for taking time to respond. I thought it might be of interest
to you to know that the USOP essay contests I mentioned below were
conducted simultaneously in the US and the UK. And if I recall
correctly, I believe the TOES group I mentioned is also based in the
UK. Finally, I've become acquainted with an old Laborite, Harry
Ball-Wilson, who now resides in Hawaii. He was involved in sponsoring
the USOP contests in the UK, and is also a personal friend of Shann
Turnbull, the Aussie originator of the OTC idea, and was a personal
friend of the late Louis Kelso, "inventor" of the ESOP. Do you think
the 3W proponents in the UK are aware of this?
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: uk-policy Downing Street and after (fwd)
Author: Michael Gurstein <mgurst@ccen.uccb.ns.ca> at Internet
Date: 5/28/98 6:16 PM
Hi Thomas,
Thanks for putting me in this loop. I'm not sure how familiar you are
with UK politics but the 3W discussion there is very much linked into the
long history of factional fighting within the Labour Party and
specifically with the relationship with the TUC (AFL/CIO)... the
decimation of the unions under Thatcher and so on...
As I read what's going on there, US discussions around things like ESOP's
and so on really aren't in that picture (yet?...
BTW you might find this of interest... if you haven't already seen it.
http://www.nea.org/society/unions.html
regs
Mike Gurstein
On Tue, 26 May 1998, Thomas Brandt wrote:
> > Thanks to Jim and Deane for bringing this up on the list.
>
> Since my dissertation (if I finish it) is to a large extent focused on
> the latest in "third way" (3W) thinking and its potential local
> applications, I read the excerpt below with above-average interest. I
> also checked out the website Deane suggested. While I learned a
> little more about the history of 3W thinking (e.g. the continental 3W
> discourse between the world wars, and the QWL lit of the 50s and 60s),
> I didn't know whether to be encouraged or discouraged by this latest
> 3W incarnation in the UK (regardless of whether it's due to cosmic
> dust or something more theoretically tangible as suggested by Mike
> Shapiro.)
>
> If Blair is truly a Clinton clone, then this is potentially bad news.
> Clinton and his labor secy, Robert Reich, put employee empowerment on
> the national political radar screen in a mild way early in his first
> term. but little tangible action was taken. (Clinton did support some
> legislation that strengthened--or at least didn't weaken--incentives
> for employee stock ownership, but also vetoed legislation that would
> have reduced labor law impediments to the expanded use of quality
> circles.) I haven't heard Clinton say or do anything noticeable on
> this front during his second term. So 3W advocates in the UK better
> hope Blair doesn't follow suit.
>
> Neither did I find anything I considered truly "new" either below or
> on the 3W website in terms of strategies and models for 3W
> implementation. And in terms of the latter, I think there are better
> sources. Among them I would suggest the publications on Employee
> Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs), co-ops, and other alternatives to ESOPs
> of the National Center for Employee Ownership (NCEO), the winning
> essays from Stuart Speiser's Universal Stock Ownership Plan (USOP)
> essay contests in the 80s, Shann Turnbull's Ownership Transfer
> Corporation (OTC) idea, the various other ways to broaden capital
> ownership designed by ESOP creator Louis Kelso, and much of the work
> of "The Other Economic Summit" (TOES) group.
>
> Regarding ways to initiate this discussion locally, Deane attempted to
> do so at a forum sponsored by the Hawaii Justice Institute last week
> entitled: "After we Downsize: The Role of the State in Assuring Social
> Justice in Hawaii." I was there and added my two cents on how
> employee ownership has been used to privatize certain govt functions
> elsewhere, but was never mentioned in the local debate on
> privatization (even though I heard Gary Rodrigues endorse employee
> ownership in a general sense on public TV several years ago). I also
> mentioned the potential of employee ownership to increase
> private-sector workforce productivity which, according to DBEDT
> director Seiji Naya, has hardly increased at all in Hawaii since
> statehood.
>
> Finally, I circulated a summary of my thinking on this topic to all
> legislators and members of the Governor's Economic Revitalization Task
> Force over the last six months. I received expressions of interest
> from several legislators, including Calvin Say and Suzanne Chun
> Oakland, as well as from Walter Heen, Task Force member and the newly
> elected chair of Hawaii's Democratic Party. I also plan to finish an
> article on this subject for "Island Business" magazine in the near
> future.
>
> Comments, questions, and criticisms are welcome, particularly anything
> that has to do with new or cutting-edge 3W thinking and its
> implementation.
>
> Mahalo and Aloha!
>
>
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ > Subject: Re: uk-policy Downing Street and
after (fwd)
> Author: Deane Neubauer <deane@hawaii.edu> at Internet
> Date: 5/26/98 8:31 AM
>
>
> Jim and list. There are actually two third ways in Britain. This one is
> the version of the electoral capture the center strategy that served
> Clinton so well and which Blair has adopted and transformed somewhat. The
> other is a far more radical group, actually a political party, campaigning
> for the radical decentralization of power in society, and defining itself
> as the "radical center". Its manifesto can be found at:
>
> www.users.dircon.co.uk/~thirdway/
>
> Deane
>
> On Sat, 23 May 1998, Jim Dator wrote:
>
> >
> > I am posting this to HRCFS-L partly in response to the "California
> > ideology" discussion begun by Mike Ogden and continued by Vincent and
> > others. I find items like this, from Canadian and British lists, to be
> > very useful for thinking about issues here in Hawaii, as elsewhere.
> >
> > But how do we get people to begin to discuss issues in this manner here?
> > Given the press responses to the past legislative session, and the letters
> > to the editors, the only alternative to Democrasclerosis is
> > ultra-Republicababble. The discussion below suggests an interesting
> > alternative.
> >
> > I am posting it to polisci-l because there may be folks on that
> > list interested in this topic as well.
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 06:57:46 -1000
> > From: Michael Gurstein <mgurst@ccen.uccb.ns.ca>
> > To: Electronic Democracy in Nova Scotia <NS-POLITICS@ccen.uccb.ns.ca>
> > Cc: futurework <futurework@dijkstra.uwaterloo.ca>
> > Subject: uk-policy Downing Street and after (fwd)
> >
> >
> > This is forwarded from a list concerned with the development of a new
> > "third" way (neither "capitalist" nor "socialist")...to framing public
> > policy in the United Kingdom.
> >
> > What is particularly interesting about this is that it has the formal
> > endorsement of UK PM Blair, who invited selected participants from the
> > e-discussion around for a seminar to Downing St.
> >
> > Mr. Blair has also discussed these general ideas with Mr. Clinton in the
> > the context of the attempt at creating a centre left Anglo-US "New
> > Democratic/New Labour" axis.
> >
> > Anyone in Canada interested in exploring the possiblity of parallel
> > discussions?
> >
> > Mike Gurstein
> >
> > ----------Forwarded message ----------
> > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 12:09:49 +0100 (BST)
> > From: Diarmid Weir <djgw@febl.abel.co.uk>
> > Reply-To: uk-policy@netnexus.org
> > To: uk-policy@netnexus.org
> > Subject: uk-policy Downing Street and after
> >
> > David Halpern has suggested that I post some thoughts on the Downing Street
> > seminar. I've also reflected on further developments since..
> >
> > First, let me say that my impression is that Blair's openness to new and
> > possibly very radical thought is genuine. This means that we all have the
> > option to influence both the underlying political philosophy of the
government > > and its consequent policies - if we can find the arguments to
convince him. > >
snip...
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